Common Ground With Liberals?

This topic has been rattling around in my brain for a couple of weeks, and I finally had time to write it up.

In many respects, I can understand the Liberal mindset on issues. They have the same concerns that I have, even though I do not agree with their methods on how to accomplish the stated goal. For example…

The stated Liberal concern for our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq is their safety. I too am concerned for the men and women of our armed services, and do not want them to be killed or wounded. Our reasoning on how that may best be accomplished and whether Iraq is a lost cause or not differ (and I have written numerous posts on this subject), but we do agree that the sons & daughters of Americans need to be protected.

Let’s next take a look at the educational system. Liberals want our children to be protected from bullying and harm. At the same time, our children need to be endowed with high self-esteem. While I agree with the need for zero tolerance for violence policies and our children needing high self-esteem, we differ on the methods. Where I believe that responsibility for actions and accomplishment lead to high self-esteem and social responsibility, the Liberals want to give unearned praise as the way for establishing this feeling and social attitude (I know, because I’ve seen it firsthand in my son’s school). But again, we do agree that our sons & daughters should have the best school experience possible in as safe an environment as we can give them.

One of the most important topics that we agree on is our children’s safety. Expanding on the above, we want our children to be safe no matter where they may be – in school, at the mall, driving a car, at a party, etc. As such, sometimes ridiculous policies are placed in the schools for their safety. One such example is the removal of pop machines from school property. I would much rather that the children take responsibility for their actions rather than the Liberal tactic of making excuses for their actions and removing the pop machines. While I do think that removing the machines was a good thing, it’s the principle of the matter. But regardless of this Liberal victim mentality, we agree that the health and well being of our children is important.

We also agree that children need to be raised in a responsible manner. After all, a prominent Liberal wrote a book on how it takes a village to raise a child. I personally think it takes two committed and loving parents (man & wife) to do the job correctly. But again, raising children is important – after all, they are our flesh and blood.

Last is the issue of Global Warming. Liberals, by & large, state that man is creating the Global Warming situation. I do agree that the data shows that the Earth is on a warming trend, but I do not agree that it is man-made or if mankind is influencing this trend. Depending on which “expert” and model is being looked at, mankind’s activities are having no effect, some effect, or a huge impact upon the Earth’s weather. Some years ago, the scientists were concerned that the Earth was cooling down, and that a new ice age was just around the corner. Now these same scientists are concerned that the Earth will turn into the next Venus. But regardless of how you look at the data and which side of the issue you are, the main concern is that we both want to leave an Earth for our children and grandchildren to live in and enjoy.

I think that I’ve established some common ground on how important children are to both Liberals and Conservatives. They need to be nurtured and protected from the ills of the world until they are ready to take their place in it. They are to be given the best possible chance to succeed in life, to be happy and productive in whatever career they may choose. Which leads me to one question:

If children are so precious that they must be protected against all harm, real and imagined, then why, why, do Liberals support, in any and all of its grotesque & horrific forms, the abortion of innocent unborn children?

2 thoughts on “Common Ground With Liberals?

  1. Let me respond, one by one.

    The war(s)- I think liberals are in agreement that Afgahnistan is where the real enemy (those who attacked us) reside, and that we must get them. Iraq, no matter how much Neo-Cons try to lie to us, was not involved. Liberals see the Iraq misadventure as a detour in the War on Terror that is more about a family grudge, oil, and removing our military in the region to a more stable area than Saudi. Their incompetence in the execution of the post-invasion pacification of Iraq is the issue. Obviously, if things were working out well there nobody would be complaining about it. Neo-Cons refused to even admit that things were going horribly there until they had their asses handed to them in Nov., and I’m sure that if they keep ignoring the will of the people, Republicans will be luckey to get elected dog-catcher in ’08.

    In schools, a little praise can go a long way, whether or not some adult thinks they “deserve” it. It’s called positive re-enforcement. It’s not a bad thing to say something nice. If the kid doesn’t feel included, he’ll withdraw and take the atitude “why try, I’ll just lose”.

    Pop machines in schools are only an issue now because the soda companies went way overboard in the past by placing too many in there in the first place. I say let them stay, but limit their number and also offer healthy alternatives that cost less.
    (BTW- I am so tried of “liberal victim mentality” that is a bunch of crap. Every time liberals point out why they think something is unfair and want to change it, Neo-Cons trot this out)

    I think most liberals also feel that ideally children should have a mother and father, but recognize that we do not always have this ideal situation and social programs can help those children who find themselves in less than ideal circumstances. Assisting the non-traditional family through government programs, help from extended family, and charity from the private sector can and do help those families that are less fortunate than our own. This is the “villiage”.
    As for abortion, I am against it. If my wife or daughter wanted to have one, I would beg them not to. That being said, it is the law of the land and I am unwilling to tell all American women that they can no longer get one. You rail against how liberals want to “control” our behavior, but have no problem telling a woman that she must continue with an unwanted pregnancy. And just why are Pro-lifers usually pro death penalty, even when there have been so many cases of innocent people exonerated by DNA and other evidence?

    Global warming- Well, something is going on there. Can we really do enough to fix it? I don’t know. Do I want to destroy the economy trying? No. Do we just stick our head in the sand and hope it will go away?

    Conservatives recognise that we are a welfare state, and merely want to limit it’s growth.

    Currently, their are few of them in Washington. Neo-Cons want to destroy the welfare state and t
    Tim | Homepage | 02.28.07 – 10:20 am | #

    Tim, you missed the point…pity…
    Tom | Homepage | 02.28.07 – 1:17 pm | #

    I think the core difference, generally true but not always, is that conservatives believe that the individual should be held responsible for his or her own conduct and well-being while the liberals see the state or society as a whole as responsible. That means we will look for solutions where each group sees the responsibility. While there may be some truth to both sides, I see the weight of the evidence is on the side of the conservatives.
    Shoprat | Homepage | 02.28.07 – 4:57 pm | #

    Tom: I could go point by point with Tim, though I doubt anyone could break through his wall of willful ignorance, so let me instead offer a simple graphic which does the job better and saves me the trouble:…age/ ca0221d.jpg
    Mike’s America | Homepage | 02.28.07 – 7:33 pm | #

    P.S. Drop me a note and let me know if he comes back and needs further instruction.
    Mike’s America | Homepage | 02.28.07 – 7:34 pm | #

    Left a note for you at my place Tom.
    This is for Tim. Try to keep an open mind. Look through some of the older articles. Tom might find the new one of some use. A lil heady for me to follow as well as I might like, but I got the gist of it.
    Tom C | Homepage | 02.28.07 – 7:42 pm | #

    I agree with Shoprat’s evaluation and would only add that conservtives want less government while liberals believe in more government. Conservatives believe in helping the poor, but we think it’s up to us to decide which poor we would like to help and how much we would like to spend, while liberals believe in taxing the rich, which is only a way of punishing those who have the brainpower and drive to get ahead.
    Gayle | Homepage | 02.28.07 – 10:02 pm | #

    What is your point, then Tom? Educate me and tear down my wall of willfull ignorance. That statement alone just proves the intolerance of the writer’s own prejudices. I know, just like Ann, you only want to talk with liberals “if you must”
    Tim | Homepage | 03.01.07 – 10:21 am | #

    the silence is deafening…
    Tim | Homepage | 03.01.07 – 11:08 pm | #

    Everyone – Thank you for your support, comments, and links. It is greatly appreciated.

    Tim – Please read the previous post – I have very little time to spend, so if the silence is deafening, it’s because you desire an immediate response and not getting it. Instant gratification is not one of my strong points…

    Willful ignorance? Walls? Take that comment up with Mike, although I can safely state that we all have walls of some nature. It depends if we are willing to peek over the wall to maybe learn something. If you want to remain ignorant behind the wall and never look over, then that’s a personal choice.

    I’ll talk with (or write responses to) Liberals, Conservatives, Democrats, Republicans, and all the different shades in between. But let’s be civil about it. If you’re not, then kindly refer to my comment policy.

    Here’s the point, Tim: No one answered the question at the end of the post. Everyone got sidetracked on the issues presented in the post that outlined differences (in general terms) between Liberals and Conservatives. The question was to point out the apparent hypocrisy of Liberals in the regard to being pro-abortion while holding the “it’s for the children” card for their actions on other subjects.

    To hide behind the statement that it’s “the law of the land” will not absolve anyone from the moral implications of performing or having an abortion. If you recall, “the law of the land” banned abortions in the not so distant past, and was changed only on the basis of falsified testimony. If you don’t believe this last statement, do your own research and learn along the way.

    A last thought – Personal responsibility is something that society, in general, has abandoned. This is one of the reasons that abortion exists. It’s not the fetus’s fault for being created, it’s the actions of the parent(s), and it is their responsibility for doing the moral & right thing to do, not what is quick & convenient.
    Tom | Homepage | 03.02.07 – 4:29 pm | #

    Well Tom, I believe that there ARE certain circumstances where abortion is a good thing, as in the case of a severely deformed fetus, rape, incest, or endangering the life of the mother. Do I think it should be retroactive birth control? Heck no. Silly me, I thought that you were looking for common ground with liberals, but by your own admission you were merely setting a trap to entertain yourself at my expense. As for your comment policy, I have not attacked anybody here. And like I said earlier, you rail against how Liberals want to control our behavior but have no problem controlling women forcing them to carry an unwanted pregnancy. Oh well, you play your games, I’ll play mine. If you only want to hear from people who always agree with you, you should take your blog private so that only members may comment.
    Tim | Homepage | 03.02.07 – 6:52 pm | #

    Tim – So sorry you take offense at my response. I take offense at your comments “you only want to talk with liberals ‘if you must'” and “the silence is deafening…” I’ll call it like I see it.

    Looking for common ground with Liberals and others – yes. Entertainment at another’s expense – no. Trying to point out what appears to be hypocrisy in the Liberal viewpoint on abortion – most definitely.

    And I’m still looking for an answer to the question.

    Tim, you have your position on this issue, and I have mine, although I’m confused about yours. Your position, if I understand it correctly, is supporting abortion to terminate an unwanted pregnancy, even though you say you are personally against it and it shouldn’t be used as retroactive birth control. I’m sorry, Tim, but I think you are confused too…

    “Free Choice” has its responsibilities as well as consequences. I believe that abortion is far more than removing an unwanted pregnancy. Please follow this link to a previous post for more.
    Tom | Homepage | 03.03.07 – 12:06 am | #

    I’d be curious to know what you might think of the articles I linked to this post on self-esteem and telling kids they are smart all the time.
    wordsmith | Homepage | 03.03.07 – 2:56 am | #

    No confusion to me. I outlined above when I think abortion is acceptable. I reject out of hand that a fetus is a human. If I went by your definition of what a human is, I couldn’t spit on the ground because the cells in the saliva are “of human origin”. If you really want to find common ground then let’s work on reducing the need for abortions in the first place:unwanted pregnancies. We need to educate these young women on birth control. The truth is, Neo-Cons do not favor birth control or sex education in most circumstances because they think it means condoning premarital sex. I favor what Clinton envisioned on abortion “safe, legal, and RARE”. This is a polarizing issue that I think will tear this country apart. I also think that when it comes down to it, it’s going to be one more nail in the coffin for Republicans if they make it the litmus test for an acceptable presidential candidate. Right now, the only GOP candidate I’m considering is Rudy Guiliani, who is pro-choice. If that winds up being the thing that shoots him down that will probably blow their chance of retaining the presidency. Going further to the right of the mainstream will ensure defeat.

    Wordsmith- I have 2 kids, and I am tough on them when it comes to getting good grades and going to school every day, on time. They are both excellent students. I also give them lots of praise. I read your post and I agree with it for the most part. I’m just saying that sometimes if you give a kid a pat on the back when no one else does it will make them feel better, and try a little harder. Some kids don’t get that at home.
    Tim | Homepage | 03.03.07 – 8:44 am | #

    Wordsmith – Liked the articles. It is always important to encourage children, but it is also important to praise them for accomplishments. I also agree that too much “empty” praise will not have the desired results.

    Tim – I think that you & I will have to agree to disagree, at least on this subject. A fetus is a developing human being. Spit, on the other hand, is spit.

    This is one Conservative that believes that education & contraceptives are necessary to prevent the unwanted pregnancies that result in the abortions we all want to avoid. With the media bombarding our children with sexual messages in movies & commercials (viagra, for instance), and absent parents, they need all the help they can get – that’s simply the reality of the situation. I do believe that the parents need to have a say in this matter instead of getting blindsided.
    Tom | Homepage | 03.03.07 – 7:01 pm | #

    I reject out of hand that a fetus is a human.

    Based on what evidence? That is the most irresponsible attitude toward human life I have ever heard of. The fact is, science doesn’t know at what point a growing embryo ceases to be just a mass of cells and becomes conscious human life. In the absence of such knowledge, one should err on the side of caution. Think of demolishing a building. Would you detonate the charges if you didn’t know whether or not someone was inside, but someone had raised the possibility that there might be? Well, actually, maybe you would reject the possibility that someone could be inside and blow it up without checking. That’s easier, right?
    The Sovereign Editor | Homepage | 03.04.07 – 9:55 am | #

    Tom sometimes what looks like irrational liberal thoughts are really well thought out evil plans. What seems like liberal contradiction may not be. Case in point, remember the California Assemblywoman Sally J. Lieber who sponsored a anti-spanking bill. (She cares about protecting children, right?) She is with the party that lobbies for partial birth abortions. (A seems like a contriction) It took awhile, but it all makes sense to me now. When a baby is lucky enough to be born, the doctor spanks the baby to get it to breathe. The new law would prohibit the doctor from spanking the baby so it can suffocate on its own mucous.

    The more interesting question to me is why are Conservatives pro-life and for the death penalty while liberals are pro-abortion and against the death penalty?
    Conservative Dad | Homepage | 03.05.07 – 10:26 pm | #

    I have a question… why do some people always try to equate the killing of a murderer with the killing of an innocent person? This idea has never made sense to me.

    On a side note, according to an NPR examination of the death penalty, due to court costs involved in getting an execution, it is actually cheaper to keep a murderer in prison for life.
    The Sovereign Editor | Homepage | 03.06.07 – 12:17 am | #

    We do have some common ground.
    And Tom has common sense!!

    Great post.
    jimmyb | Homepage | 03.06.07 – 6:57 pm | #

    Sovereign Editor – Thank you for your analogy. It’s probably one of the best arguments I’ve seen for a long time. On the NPR examination of court costs, it’s now the extended due process that has made it so expensive. Of course, it should be proven without any doubt before someone is executed.

    Conservative Dad – Liberals seem to be in a contradictory state when dealing with protecting children and defending abortion. Pointing this out was one of the reasons for writing this post.

    Both of you – An examination of the reasons of 1) Why Conservatives pro-life and for the death penalty while liberals are pro-abortion and against the death penalty & 2) Why do some people always try to equate the killing of a murderer with the killing of an innocent person would both make interesting posts.
    Tom | Homepage | 03.06.07 – 7:14 pm | #

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